黄：我们今天的话题可以谈得比较广泛一点，从艺术本体到社会经济问题及政治问题等。当然，我们最主要是谈你的个人创作。目前，中国的当代艺术出现了一些惊喜的变化。尤其是2008年9月纽约发生了“金融风暴”之后，对全球的艺术冲击很大。在这个情况下，我们并没有看到中国艺术的消沉，反而呈现出更多的艺术活动。如，今年有“杨千个展”、“武明中个展”、“隋建国个展”、“岳敏君个展”等等，从而出现了一些非常有价值的作品，这反映出艺术家个人在经济震荡下的明智决策。我想，你作为这一现象中的一位艺术家，你是怎么来考虑调整自己的艺术思路的？
陈：你提的那些艺术家，他们都经历过比较漫长的历练期，曾经受过的冲击都要比这次金融危机的考验大得多，所以他们可以很从容地应对这场突如其来的金融海啸。全球金融危机爆发后，会让今年的冬天变得更加漫长，何时才能走出低迷期呢？我觉得在金融危机期间，艺术市场很低迷的情况下，更应该好好的“冷思考”。因为前些年艺术家实在太狂躁、太膨胀了。“冷思考”就是好好“自反”、“自省”一把，之后定有“知不足”，有了“知不足”才会有“学无厌”，懂得“学无厌”就必定会有“顿开新悟”。之后，一定能让你找到更客观的自我坐标，并且心态趋于平静。这对一个艺术家而言是至关重要的。在这个特殊的背景下，我尽全力举办了今年“紧急出口”的这次个展。希望它能给今年这个严冬带来一丝温暖的阳光。
黄：面对这样一个严峻的形势，艺术要有一种针对性，比如现实的针对性、文化的针对性、社会的针对性，甚至政治的针对性。它是依赖于对某一个突发事件的分析和批判，这无疑反映出了一个艺术家的态度。当然，事件艺术并不是描述事件的表象，也不是把事件作为一种政治再现。我想在当代艺术中在任何关于事件与艺术关系的分析，它更注重的是把政治作为一个观念性去解析，强调这个事件在艺术中所隐含的一些东西，或者是观念的一些东西。你在这次展览中的两件作品，一件是“你看到的未必是真实的”，另一件是“如何逃离”，题目本身就揭示了一个哲理式的观念，作品本身也是在表达了一种关于真实、欺骗性和虚假性的东西，实际上形象本身已是作为一个艺术载体，那么，你怎么来创作事件与艺术关系的作品？
陈：记得去年我的个展“物神”是9月13号开幕的，而奥巴马在今年的9月14日发表了这次金融危机一周年的专题演说。现实中真是有很多的巧合，我去年个展之后第二天，美国正式宣布金融危机爆发。“物神”个展开幕之后，我阅读了大量的时事要闻，有关金融危机的资讯铺天盖地的。自然而然地对这一世界性的事件颇有触动。于是，我就想拿金融危机这件事情来做点相关的作品，当然有关金融危机的作品并不是金融危机的一种注脚、一种再现，而是有所抽离和反思。并且要反应出这次金融危机背后隐藏着一种全球性的普遍的生存困境，同时反映了这次金融危机所折射出的资本主义自由经济体系中人与资本之间复杂而又纠结的一种关系。
黄：你可以谈谈“你看到的未必是真实的”创作初衷吗？
陈：我想一件艺术品的本体价值应该超越一个事件或一个时代的某种局限性。艺术语言或艺术形式往往比其内容更具有永久的价值和力量。在08年底我一直在创作有关这次金融危机的小稿，数易其稿皆不满意。刚开始的泥塑稿只是出现了牛撞人的情景，也没有原子弹式的牛屁，更没有麦道夫。之前的平面创意草案中，还出现过牛撞马、牛撞自由女神、牛撞小布什等等的情景。同年3月中旬我受美国芝加哥大学巫鸿教授之邀，去了一趟芝城参展，并途经纽约专门去华尔街溜达了半天。回国后，一切的难点都顺理成章地得到了解决。创作伊始，我试图用虚拟的手法营造出一个真实世界的图景，而不是平铺直叙地去描述当今的现实社会。
黄：在这次展览中，你作品有很大跨越，它的主心骨还是延续了你自己的方法论，也就是说，作品仍然很具有想象力、夸张、诙谐、幽默、讽刺、批判等特征，因为想象力和创造力是艺术家的语言、观念、形式的一个最根本性的东西。
陈：对于个人化的艺术语言来说，我发现目前有挺多中国的当代艺术家，要么过度的西方化，要么过度的地域化或民族化，这两种倾向都会造成东西方受众的错位阅读。我试着去寻找一种更具包容性的艺术语言。我相对比较注重观念与技能相结合的艺术表现手段，同时还汲取一些民俗文化。试图营造出一种雅俗共赏和深入浅出的视觉图像，而不是一种浅入深出的故弄玄虚。
黄：最近，国内一些评论家在讨论和批评中国的艺术家作品做得很大。其实，大只是相对而言，从艺术的角度看，中国的任何艺术家做的大作品与西方大地艺术相比就显得小了。这不是艺术的根本性的一个问题，大与小是取决于它的观念的需要，取决于它的空间的需要及它的语境的思考。
陈：前段巫鸿老师组织了一个研讨会上也有批判家言及作品大小的问题，会上我说，90年代初，博罗夫斯基在卡塞尔文献展的“走向天际”的装置雕塑，如果那根倾斜的圆柱不是20几米长，而是筷子一般大小，必将导致作品的失色，又如前几年意大利的卡特兰做的那件“下跪希特勒”，如果做成20米高，像城市雕塑一般大，那也必将是失败的作品。再假如热带雨林中的大象长得像小狗一般小，那样必将减弱它的力量和影响力；又如一只蝴蝶大到同飞机一般，也许会让你感到非常的恶心。如果把载体的大小和媒介的进化作为艺术优劣的衡量标准，那是很可笑的。
黄：我一直认为，中国的艺术批评总是处于一种从文字到文字的游戏状态，当然我们要强调纯理论的批评，但是纯理论的批评也是要建立一个实践的意义上的，看不懂画，看不懂雕塑，看不懂观念艺术，那么怎么去谈，只能是言不及义的空谈，我认为中国的艺术批评急需在一种基于实践意义上的批评。比如你多年来的作品也是在不断地推进和完善之中，批论家对你的作品也是难以用一种概念加以定论，而是要用动态的眼光看待你的变化。
陈：三十年来我们的国门已经打开到这样的程度了，我们一直走出去，外面的人一直走进来。这种人来人往的国际化语境中，我们肯定会听闻到外面的很多声音和现象，各种新媒体艺术、观念艺术、装置艺术等等的艺术方法论，同样对我都会产生深远的影响，我吃了这么多年的艺术杂粮，一定会衍生出一种新的当代艺术语言。我认为艺术家是艺术史的创造主体，艺术家的创造是必须要有前瞻性。所以很多艺术家当下的作品无法完全被理论界接受也是正常的。
黄：在这个阶段中，中国的艺术家还是做出了许多很大胆的试验，无论是装置雕塑，还是录像艺术，还是平面绘画等等都有着很大的突破。那么，你是如何把写实雕塑语言转换成为一种个性鲜明的当代艺术语言，给予很多的年轻人新的启示。
陈：我觉得这跟我学过中国画有关系，我记得当时我十八九岁，满怀激情的想当个画家，当个中国画家、当个书法家。古代画论认为，中国传统艺术是一种承前启后艺术传承链，就是你要先继承前人，然后才有可能去启示后人。这种方法论对我有一定的影响。当然，我不能说我现在的艺术就一定能够启示后人，但我依然要对传统文化艺术语言有所继承，包括民俗艺术等等。我知道自己这种方法论是不时髦的、也不讨巧的，更不是用一种断裂的态度去独创或原创所谓的某种当代艺术，因为在互联网资信空前爆炸的今天，对所谓独创或原创，我常常是持有怀疑态度的。从根本上说今天的艺术都是各种门类的文化艺术相互碰撞、相互融汇和相共生的再造结果。我在“卓越”的这次个展如果用纯粹传统的雕塑布展方式，用半天就完事了，而我们这次布展用了11天，从作品组装、灯光、地板到墙面等等的处理，都是通过装置艺术和观念艺术等等的概念来驾驭整个展厅，从而营造出一种崭新的呈现方式。
黄：所以，这个作品本身既有雕塑的因素，也有装置的因素。而相关草图和纪录片的呈现都大大的丰富了这个展示空间。一般的传统雕塑的展览都是人围着作品这个中心转悠，而你的作品完全取消了重心力附着在地面的常规法则，而是直接着立在墙面，并营造出一种让观众可以穿行其中的阅读方式。
陈：我在小空间里面的作品“如何逃离”布展过程也是一波三折、起死回生的，由于空间太长而作品太短导致作品的力量难以充盈整个空间。后来运用了“笔断意连”的弥补方式在作品对面墙上装有一面圆形的镜子，并击碎镜面中的雕塑影像与“如何逃离”的终极性的理念相呼应，并在飞牛一侧投以集束光柱以致对面墙上出现一个很诗性的奔牛雕塑的影像。另外，就是把整个小展厅的六面都刷成黑色。这与雕塑镜面、影像和光束等元素构成了很东方的神秘色彩，这样的布展方式大大的丰富了常规雕塑的展示方式和艺术观念。
黄：这次展览给我很有力度的感觉，实际上它充分的体现一种综合性，不仅仅是一个雕塑本身，而是强调了作品的不确定性，不确定性改变作品空间的常规方式，所以你考虑了展览的整体性。开幕之前，我美国的朋友来看，他们很吃惊地感受到这个作品本身所具有的国际性语言，能看到一个艺术家的想象力和观念的表现力，它是涉及到有关人的信仰、道德、伦理等危机背后的思考，这不仅仅是一个典型事件的简单注脚，而是通过典型事件揭示出更深刻的思想观念。
陈：对的，通过这样的一个作品可能揭示的不仅仅是金融危机表征，而是揭示了其背后的诚信、道德、精神信仰等一系列的危机。因为它带有当下社会的一种普遍性特征，我们所说的关注社会、关注现实，这里的社会和现实所指的是全球性的社会和现实。
黄：从本质上来讲，这个作品的意义是把世界性的集体意识转换成为极具个人意识。这种转换是建立在一个观念语言形式上的，而不是建立在一个主题上的表层。
陈：挺多的当代艺术家通常会采用“指着秃子骂和尚”的手法，也就是用“指桑骂槐”、“借尸还魂”的隐喻手段来揭示事件背后的真相。比如说我用这个“屁”来隐喻金融危机的这种泡沫化的弥漫和扩散。我用华尔街这个大家都非常熟悉的“金牛”作为基本造型的来源，总觉得这个“金牛”本身就是一个新民俗的符号，现在我们到处都能看到很多公司里面都会放一头“金牛”。而这里的“牛”所指的不是鲁迅先生说的“横眉冷对千夫指，俯首甘为孺子牛”里的“牛”，吃的是草，挤出来的是奶，默默无闻，任劳任怨的样子，而是象征着一个经济和股市概念的牛。
黄：其实，无论是在华尔街还是在中国很多大老板都用老虎或狮子等作为某种象征物，或者是作为某种权利的象征物。而你做的牛就是作为牛市的寓言。从艺术史关于动物的角度看，博伊斯跟一只死兔子讲话，是在探讨一种关于死亡的问题。而卡特兰用的动物，在一张桌子上有一把手枪放在松鼠跟前，无疑是一种暗喻，或者有象征性的东西。我想这是一个媒介，一个象征的媒介。
陈：我觉得一个艺术家的艺术语言，包括他的展览方式、造型方式、媒介方式都是极其重要的，他的艺术语言要有一种个人性、极端性、偏执性、唯一性和排他性。光有一个好点子、好花招，没有表现出自我艺术语言特征的作品一般都像宣传画，或是一种观念的简单图解。有人说把“艺术”两个字拆开，“艺”就是思想与观念，“术”就是技能与语言。二者合为一，既是艺术。而“风格”二字拆开，“风”是流动的、变数的、不确定性的，它起之哪里，落之何处是随机而动的，“格”既是稳定的、定格的、有客观丈量的法则和上下文脉关系。所以，有风格的艺术家和有符号的艺术家是有本质差别的；有风格的艺术家是持续在变，而有符号的艺术家则一成不变。真正的艺术家应该有点像实验家和探险家一样的精神，他们对未知世界充满好奇心和挑战精神。
黄：你的这件作品给人带来很多震惊。之所以让人感到震惊是因为你不按照艺术常规出牌，而是超过一般人的想象。一个好的艺术家的品行应该就是要怀疑自己，颠覆自己，超越自己，这是艺术家的内核力量。那么从这种意义上说好艺术家永远不是定格式的思维模式，他的观念永远是在往前走，永远不落俗套，永远不按常理去做事情，甚至对艺术史和艺术的怀疑。
陈：当然，有力量、有自信的艺术家通常是相信自己胜过相信别人。他对艺术史和别人的学习不一定是用来模仿、借鉴和合作的，而是用来回避、反对和放弃的。从而更好的定位自我艺术的坐标。
黄：有一些人对你的作品提出过一些批评，实际上在我看来，就是他们难以读懂你的作品，他们的经验跟你的观念之间是有差异的，甚至是错位的。
陈：我是觉得每一次个展其实都是一次自我艺术精神的“阅兵式”，同时也是最大程度暴露自身弱点的过程。二十几年的艺术实践告诫我，一个艺术家要懂得包容各种不同的声音，褒贬不一的评判，尊重多样性的文化差异和价值标准。什么样的声音和批评都有可能成为我成长的良方和武器。我终生会去追求成为一个有特点的艺术家，而不是一个完美的艺术家。所以说被人质疑和批判也是在所难免的。我心里很尊重学理式或学术式的各路批评，而没空去听那些泼妇谩骂式的批评。我一定会把听别人谩骂我或我谩骂别人的时间用到自我艺术磨练的实践中去，这才是最安全和最必须的生存状态。
黄：最后，你能否给年轻一代的艺术家一些建议呢？
陈：毛泽东曾经说过：“未来是你们的”。年轻一代也必将超越我们这一代的成就。但是我仍然有一个小小的建议：今天多数的年轻艺术家有点舍远求近、急于求成、过早和过度地追求商业性的成功，商业性对于艺术家而言确实是把双刃剑。有人说过一个例子可以和大家共勉：当西红柿小小颗的、未成熟之时，如果催促它变红，红了的西红柿就不再长大了。也就是说红了并不等于果实真正的长大成熟，反而会阻碍它的进一步成长。如果我们给它们足够的时间来成长，从青涩到红润、最终结成丰硕的果实。同理，年轻艺术家同样需要一个稍长一些的成长过程。
黄笃望京工作室
2009年9月3日Where is the "Emergency Exit"?
---- Conversation between Chen Wenlin and Huang Du
Huang Du Studio
September 3, 2009
Huang: Today we could talk about the topic widely. Besides art itself, we could also talk about related socio-economic problems and political problems. Certainly, your personal art creation is the theme of the conversation. At present, there are some positive changes in China's contemporary art. As we know, world financial crisis in 2008 had big impact on art world. Under this kind of situation, we did not see depression in Chinese art. On the contrary, there were more activities in the art world. For example, this year, we had Yangqian's exhibition, Wu Mingzhong's exhibition, Sui Jianguo's Exhibition, Yue Minjun's exhibition, and so on. There were very valuable works among these exhibitions, which reflected that these artists have made wise decisions under the economic crisis. As an artist in this phenomenon, how did you think of adjusting your artistic ideas?
Chen:The artists that you mentioned had relatively long experiences in this field. They had received the impacts were much bigger than this financial crisis. Therefore, they could cope with the sudden financial crisis comfortably. The global financial crisis will make the winter become longer. When can we go out of the depression? I think we should learn to "cool thinking" during the recession of art market. Because a few years ago, artists were too manic and too inflated, "cool thinking" is a way of "self-reflection", then we have "known the insufficiency", which would let us "learning without satisfaction". Learning would help us to "get new understanding". Afterward, we could certainly find a more objective self-coordinate, and our sprits would be tranquil. This is critical for an artist. In this particular circumstance, I have tried my best to hold the exhibition of "emergency exit" in this year, and hope it will bring a little bit of sunshine to this winter.
Huang: Under this kind of severe situation, art should have the specific points and relevance, such as reality relevance, cultural relevance, social relevance, and even political relevance. It relies on the analysis and critique of a specific social problem, which undoubtedly reflects the attitude of an artist. Of course, event art is not to present the appearance of the event, nor is it the case of a political representation. I think that contemporary art is more focused on the politics as to a conceptual analysis, stressed some things which conceals in art or in concept. In this exhibition, there are two works. One is "What you see in is not necessarily true," the other is "How to escape". The titles themselves reveal a philosophical concept. The works were about the real, deceptive and false nature of things. In fact, the image itself was an artistic medium, then how did you come to the relationship between art works and art events?
Chen: I remembered my former solo exhibition "the Fetish" was opening on Sept. 13 of last year, and on Sept. 14 of this year, Obama issued the keynote address for the first anniversary of the financial crisis. There are really a lot of coincidences in our daily lives. The day after my solo exhibition opened last year, the United States announced the financial crisis. After "the Fetish" exhibition opened, I read a lot of news and information about the financial crisis, and I was quite surprised and touched by this news. So I wanted to take this financial crisis as a point to create some art works. Of course, works on the financial crisis were not a footnote to the financial crisis, or a kind of reappearance. I wanted to reflect the dilemma of the world behind the financial crisis, and to reflect the complicated relationship between people and wealth in this capitalism and materialism world.
Huang: can you talk about the original intention of creating "What you see is not necessarily true"?
Chen: I think the natural value of an art work should go beyond a certain event or a time limitation. Artistic language or artistic form are often more permanent than the content. At the end of 2008, I have been drawing about small manuscripts of the financial crisis. I made several manuscripts but I was not satisfied. First manuscript was only a bull and a person crashed by the bull. There was no bomb-like bull fart and no Madoff. The previous manuscripts included "bull crashed horse", "bull crashed the Statue of Liberty, "bull crashed Bush", and so no. In the mid-March of this year, I was invited to Chicago by professor Wuhong to join the city sculpture event. I took a stroll to New York and spent half day at Wall Street. After this trip, all the difficulties in my creation have been resolved. I tried to create a virtual real-world picture by hypothesized technique, not to describe the contemporary realities of society directly.
Huang: In this exhibition, you made a big step forward, and the backbone of the works was an extension of your own methodology. Your art still have imagination, exaggeration, humor, satire, criticism, and other characteristics. Imagination and creativity are the most fundamental characteristics for artistic language, concept, and form.
Chen: Regarding to the personalized artistic language, I discovered that Chinese contemporary artists either stressed westernization excessively, or stressed nationalization excessively. These two kinds of tendencies could result in misreading by east and west audiences. I tried to find a more comprehensive artistic language. Relatively, I focused on the combination of concept and skill, also incorporate with some folk cultures. I tried to create a widely appealing and easy to understand visual images, rather than the presentation of simple trick.
Huang: Recently, some domestic critics criticized Chinese artists tended to make works in a big way. Actually, big is only relatively speaking. From the angle of art, even the big works of Chinese artists are small compare with the western earth arts. This is not a fundamental question of art, large and small depends on the needs of its concepts, depending on its space needs and the context of it.
Chen: yes, I once took part in a seminar which organized by Wu Hong. Some people there also criticized the size of the artwork. In the seminar, I said:"in the early of 90s, Borofsky' presented an installation "Man Walking to the Sky" in the Kassell Documenta. If the size of the incline column was not 20 meters long, but short like the chopsticks, it could not generate such impression to visitors. Another example, MaurizioCattelan had an art work "kneel down Hitler". If the size of the work was bigger than 20 meters, then it would be a bad art work. If elephant in the tropical rain forest looks like a puppy, we could not feel the power of elephant, and if the size of a butterfly as big as the aircraft, it would let us feel unusual disgusting. In general, using size as a standard to measure the merits of art is ridiculous.
Huang: I always think that criticism of Chinese art is like literature game. Of course, we emphasize theoretical criticism, but the pure theory criticism needs to be established on a practical sense. If a person can not understand painting, sculpture, and conceptual art, how could you communicate with him? I think Chinese art criticism needs to be based on practical sense. For example, you art creation was constantly moving forward during these years. The critics could not make an easy conclusion for your work, but need to use a dynamic judgment with regarding to your changes.
Chen: Right now, China opens a lot compare with 30years ago. We could go out and see the world freely, and people from other countries could also come and visit China. In the process of globalization, we will definitely hear different voices and see different phenomenon from outside world. Different artistic methodologies, such as new media art, concept art, and installation art, had the profound influence on me. I have already eaten artistic miscellaneous grains many years, certainly will generate one kind of new contemporary art language. I think that the artist is the main body of art history. Artist's creation must be forward-looking. Therefore, it is normal that many works of contemporary artists can not be fully accepted by theorists.
Huang: Chinese artists still made some bold experiments during this time. They got great breakthrough in the filed of installation, new media, and painting. So how did you change from the realistic sculpture language to the distinct contemporary art language, and gave many young people a new enlightenment.
Chen: I think it is because I have studied Chinese painting. I remembered when I was 18-year-old; I wanted to be a painter or be a calligrapher. According to the theory of Chinese Ancient painting, Chinese tradition art was one kind carrier of the artistic heritage chain. You must inherit the predecessor first, and then you has the possibility to enlightenment future generations. This methodology had certain influence on me. Certainly, I cannot say that my art can enlighten future generations, but I must inherit the traditional culture and art language, including folk custom art, and so on. I knew this kind of methodology was not fashionable, and was not a easy way. Not like some Chinese contemporary artists who got rid of the tradition and created so-called contemporary art with kind of break manner. In the era of unprecedented explosion of internet, I doubt many of so-called unique or original staff. Basically, today's art is a combination of different cultures and the arts, which blend together mutually, and the results come after this. For example, my exhibition in Zhuoyue gallery, if I presented it according to a traditional way, I could finish it in half day. However, we spent 11 days to install the exhibition. Not only the works, but also the lighting, the floor, and the wall, were all arranged by the concept of installation art and conceptual art. I tried to create a brand new presentation through this exhibition.
Huang: So, the works not only had the sculpture factor, also had the installment factor. And the relevant manuscripts and documentary have enriched the exhibition space greatly. Traditional sculpture exhibition in general display the work on the ground and visitors walk around the center work. However, your work completely cancelled the rule of gravity; it is attached directly on the wall, which created a way for viewers to walk through the work and read it.
Chen: My work "How to Escape" in the small space was difficult too, because the space was too long and the work was too short. So the strength of the work could not fill the entire space. Then I used a concept of Chinese painting -"the line was broke but the idea was connected". I put a round mirror on the opposite wall, and crushed the mirror. It was exactly an echo of the theme of "How to Escape". I also put a beam of light and a shadow of the flying cow cast on the side wall, which was a poetic image of the bull. In addition, the six sides of the wall were painted by black color. The sculpture, the mirror, the beam, and the black walls constitute a very mystery atmosphere of Eastern. This exhibition greatly enriched the presentation of conventional sculpture and art concept.
Huang: This exhibition gave me the feeling of strength. In fact, it reflected an integrated, not just a sculpture itself, but stressed the uncertainty of the work, and it was an uncertainty way to change the conventional exhibition space. You have thought the integrity of the exhibition. Before the opening, some of my America friends came to visit. They were surprised by the international language of the works. They could tell the artist's imagination from the works. The works were related to the thinking of faith, moral, and ethical issues behind such a crisis, not just a simple footnote to a typical event, but a deep reflection behind the typical event.
Chen: Yes, the works might reveal not only the characterizations of the financial crisis, but revealed a series of underlying crises, such as the integrity, moral, faith, and ethical issues, and so on, because they had a universal feature of contemporary society. My attention to society and reality is referring to society and reality of the world, not just about China.
Huang: Basically, the significance of this work was to convert the collective consciousness of a world into a very personal sense. This conversion was based on a concept of language form, rather than on the surface of a topic.
Chen: Many contemporary artists often use the method of "scolded the monk by pointing bald person" to reveal the truth behind the event. For example, I used this "fart" as a metaphor for the financial crisis of the bubble. I used the bull of Wall Street as the basic shape of the work. In China, bull is a symbol of new folk. We can see bulls in many big companies in China. The "Bull" of my work is not "Cow of Ruzi", which is willing to serve the people whole-heartedly, but a stock market symbol of prosperity.
Huang: Actually, no matter using the tiger, the lion, or the bull as some kind of symbols of fortune and power in China or in Wall Street, your bull is a metaphor of bull stock market. Looking from the animal's angle of art history, Joseph Beuys spoke with a dead rabbit, which discussed the issue of death. MaurizioCattelan put a pistol on a table with a dead squirrel. It's also one kind of metaphor. The animal in the works was a medium, a symbolic medium.
Chen: I think that an artist's artistic languages, including his display way, the shape form, the media type, are all important. His artistic language must have one kind of uniqueness and exclusiveness. If a work only had a good idea or trick and did not display the self-artistic language, then the work was same as a poster, or a simple diagram. With regarding to Chinese character, some people think there are two components of "art", one part is the skill, and the other part is the concept and idea. Putting these two parts together, it's art. Just like "style", according to Chinese character, the word also has two components. One part of the word is "wind", which means fluid, variability, and uncertainty. The other part is "format", which means objective measurement and the relationship between rules and context. Therefore, there are two kinds of artists: style artist and mark artist. There are basic differences between these two kinds of artists. Style artist always keeps changing, and mark artist always stays at the old place. A real artist should have the courage and curiosity like scientist and explorer. He or she always tries to challenge the unknown world.
Huang: Your works in this exhibition bring a lot of surprises to visitors. The reason is because you do not play a card according to the artistic convention. Your creation always surpass visitors' imagination. A good artist needs to suspect himself, subvert himself, and surmount himself. This is the essence of an artist. From this perspective, a good artist should never set the format of thinking. His idea always keeps moving. He never does things by common sense, and he even has the courage to doubt art history.
Chen: Certainly, the artist who has the energy usually believes himself. Studying art history and others is not for imitating, but for avoiding, opposing and getting rid of it, and then the artist could locate the art of himself.
Huang: Some people put some criticisms to your works. In my opinion, it is just because it is difficult for them to read your work; their experiences are different from your experiences. So there are differences in the understanding of art and concept.
Chen: I think that each exhibition is a review and inspection of my artistic spirit. It is also a great exposure of my weaknesses. 20 years experiences in the field of art told me that an artist should know how to accommodate a variety of different voices and a mixed evaluation. An artist should respect for diversity and the cultural differences. Any kind of voices and criticisms are likely to be a good way for me to grow. I will devote my whole life on becoming a unique artist, not a perfect artist, so the questions and criticisms are inevitable. I respect theory based or academic type criticisms, and don't have time to listen at abusive criticism. I would rather to spend this time to concentrate on my art and creation, this is best way to live with art.
Huang: Finally, could you give some advices to young artists?
Chen: Mao Zedong once said: "the future is yours". Younger generation will surpass the achievements of our generation. But I still have a small suggestion to them: many young artists today are eager to pursuit the commercial success. However, the commercial success is indeed a double-edged sword. I have an example may encourage all of us: there is a small and immature tomato; if we put something in it to make it become a red tomato, then the tomatoes will not grow up anymore. Red skin of the tomato does not mean the real growing up and maturing. On the contrary, it will hinder its further growth. If we give it enough time to grow, from the green to the red, eventually, it will become a mature fruit. Similarly, young artists also need enough time to grow.